Comments on: Issues with motivation in training and life http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/ For students of Baguazhang and Xingyiquan Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:17:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: jleeger http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-332 jleeger Mon, 11 May 2009 18:54:35 +0000 http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-332 I agree Maija, you have to create a lot of encouragement in your teaching sometimes, just to keep people motivated...that leads to my answer to your question George. I think that something as "general" as a person's past experiences with not being good at something (anything, or, many things) can cause them to stop trying sooner than someone else who had a more supportive experience in the past when they were bad at something. It can even be that the person wasn't actually bad at it, but perceived themselves as somehow inadequate... I definitely tend to shy away from things that I feel like I'm not good at, or not as good as the other people who are doing it are. Unless, of course, the other person/people are very supportive and are able to "tone down" their skill to help me avoid my own frustration with my ability level at it... I think you're right, George. The belt system can help a lot with this. As long as the teacher is careful, and watches out for older students who might abuse their rank, or newer students who might feel inadequate because of their level. You don't need to "cater" to everyone, but at the same time, you do...hahaha. I find this question of motivation especially important nowadays. Aside from having emotional "baggage," most people have so many demands on their time (constructed or actual) that it's hard to prioritize at times... I agree Maija, you have to create a lot of encouragement in your teaching sometimes, just to keep people motivated…that leads to my answer to your question George.

I think that something as “general” as a person’s past experiences with not being good at something (anything, or, many things) can cause them to stop trying sooner than someone else who had a more supportive experience in the past when they were bad at something. It can even be that the person wasn’t actually bad at it, but perceived themselves as somehow inadequate…

I definitely tend to shy away from things that I feel like I’m not good at, or not as good as the other people who are doing it are. Unless, of course, the other person/people are very supportive and are able to “tone down” their skill to help me avoid my own frustration with my ability level at it…

I think you’re right, George. The belt system can help a lot with this. As long as the teacher is careful, and watches out for older students who might abuse their rank, or newer students who might feel inadequate because of their level.

You don’t need to “cater” to everyone, but at the same time, you do…hahaha. I find this question of motivation especially important nowadays. Aside from having emotional “baggage,” most people have so many demands on their time (constructed or actual) that it’s hard to prioritize at times…

]]> By: maija http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-330 maija Sat, 09 May 2009 02:55:03 +0000 http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-330 I have benefited greatly, I believe, in other areas of my life from training martial arts, not least because it is a very useful life lesson to be bad at something, work hard, and then get better and better at it. I think it's good to suck, but many people don't seem like having that pointed out to them. Just as important is that faith/inspiration that keeps you at it, and then the positive feedback you get when you improve. Creative thinking, tenacity, focus ..the list of benefits goes on. BUT ...you have to put in the work. There is no way around it, And you'll suck ...alot. AND, particularly in the arts we choose to study you ain't even going to end up looking like the model of beauty so many aspire to! So all in all it's a small pond we swim in. I'm tending toward just being happy with the small group I teach and my small group of training friends. Of course, perhaps some reverse psychology could be the key .... "No I'm sorry, you can't come to class, you're just not up to it/ it's too secret/ it's too difficult for you"! You can see where those old tales of the student sitting for days outside the master's house came from ...:-) I have benefited greatly, I believe, in other areas of my life from training martial arts, not least because it is a very useful life lesson to be bad at something, work hard, and then get better and better at it. I think it’s good to suck, but many people don’t seem like having that pointed out to them. Just as important is that faith/inspiration that keeps you at it, and then the positive feedback you get when you improve.
Creative thinking, tenacity, focus ..the list of benefits goes on.
BUT …you have to put in the work. There is no way around it, And you’ll suck …alot. AND, particularly in the arts we choose to study you ain’t even going to end up looking like the model of beauty so many aspire to!
So all in all it’s a small pond we swim in. I’m tending toward just being happy with the small group I teach and my small group of training friends.
Of course, perhaps some reverse psychology could be the key …. “No I’m sorry, you can’t come to class, you’re just not up to it/ it’s too secret/ it’s too difficult for you”! You can see where those old tales of the student sitting for days outside the master’s house came from …:-)

]]> By: george http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-328 george Thu, 07 May 2009 15:18:15 +0000 http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-328 In regards to rewarding each individual at their stage in the learning process, yeah. I'm not sure how you do that in your personal training business, but in martial arts I think the most common answer to that is either if you are working with small groups of individuals that all start and progress at the same rate, or if you divide the groups according to ability - the belt method of course being famous for this. Actually, although we don't really have belts in the Chinese martial arts often, I still don't see it as a bad thing. It does provide incentive and reward for each student, as well as giving them a clear idea of where they are along the learning continuum and what is required of them at each stage. Do you, Josh, have an example of what you meant when you brought up a person's past experiences affecting them? I'm curious. In regards to rewarding each individual at their stage in the learning process, yeah. I’m not sure how you do that in your personal training business, but in martial arts I think the most common answer to that is either if you are working with small groups of individuals that all start and progress at the same rate, or if you divide the groups according to ability - the belt method of course being famous for this. Actually, although we don’t really have belts in the Chinese martial arts often, I still don’t see it as a bad thing. It does provide incentive and reward for each student, as well as giving them a clear idea of where they are along the learning continuum and what is required of them at each stage.

Do you, Josh, have an example of what you meant when you brought up a person’s past experiences affecting them? I’m curious.

]]> By: jleeger http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-327 jleeger Thu, 07 May 2009 14:24:07 +0000 http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-327 I agree, it's a tough issue. I deal with it in my clients all the time as a trainer. I've read some research that says that you can improve motivation by creating environments that are more focused on the individual's own stage in the learning process, and rewards improvements from their level of ability (as opposed to rewarding improvements from the perspective of how everyone - including top students - is doing). I'm very interested in this topic, though. I do agree with all of the points you've listed. There's also the person's past experience with whatever is being taught (or that "type" of thing), which can influence their motivational levels. So multifaceted, that maybe it isn't worth spending time worrying about...hahaha. I agree, it’s a tough issue. I deal with it in my clients all the time as a trainer. I’ve read some research that says that you can improve motivation by creating environments that are more focused on the individual’s own stage in the learning process, and rewards improvements from their level of ability (as opposed to rewarding improvements from the perspective of how everyone - including top students - is doing).

I’m very interested in this topic, though. I do agree with all of the points you’ve listed. There’s also the person’s past experience with whatever is being taught (or that “type” of thing), which can influence their motivational levels. So multifaceted, that maybe it isn’t worth spending time worrying about…hahaha.

]]> By: george http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-324 george Thu, 07 May 2009 04:58:08 +0000 http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-324 That is the thing for me as well. I still believe that the study of martial arts CAN have a positive impact on people physically, mentally, socially, and psychologically. But that certainly does require that initial spark of desire, and that is something that is hard to force in externally. I've definitely seen people progress greatly in their lives and the study of traditional martial arts definitely was a driving force in their improvement. I know its helped me. And, welcome to the blog Maija! That is the thing for me as well. I still believe that the study of martial arts CAN have a positive impact on people physically, mentally, socially, and psychologically. But that certainly does require that initial spark of desire, and that is something that is hard to force in externally. I’ve definitely seen people progress greatly in their lives and the study of traditional martial arts definitely was a driving force in their improvement. I know its helped me.

And, welcome to the blog Maija!

]]> By: maija http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-323 maija Wed, 06 May 2009 22:50:59 +0000 http://blog.zongwumen.com/2009/05/06/issues-with-motivation-in-training-and-life/#comment-323 I started teaching a few years back and have found the same thing, about myself, and definitely about students. Apparently 'work' is a 4 letter word. I suspect there is little point in trying to change individual behavior ... however I am always fascinated at what actually does change people, physically or mentally. Perhaps if I studied the I Ching more it might become more clear? ....or then again perhaps not :-) I started teaching a few years back and have found the same thing, about myself, and definitely about students.
Apparently ‘work’ is a 4 letter word.
I suspect there is little point in trying to change individual behavior … however I am always fascinated at what actually does change people, physically or mentally. Perhaps if I studied the I Ching more it might become more clear? ….or then again perhaps not :-)

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