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	<title>Comments on: Ideas on How to Succeed in IMA - Part 1</title>
	<link>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/</link>
	<description>For students of Baguazhang and Xingyiquan</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: george</title>
		<link>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-127</link>
		<author>george</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Just 10 tiangans?



Think in terms of hundreds per day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just 10 tiangans?</p>
<p>Think in terms of hundreds per day.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-106</link>
		<author>Nick</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-106</guid>
		<description>After reading this... I feel bad and I'm gonna go do a set of 10 tiangans.  Great motivation, thanks George.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading this&#8230; I feel bad and I&#8217;m gonna go do a set of 10 tiangans.  Great motivation, thanks George.</p>
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		<title>By: jleeger</title>
		<link>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-81</link>
		<author>jleeger</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-81</guid>
		<description>You're right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right.</p>
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		<title>By: george</title>
		<link>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-76</link>
		<author>george</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 04:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-76</guid>
		<description>That's a good point about this not being the old days.

In the old days, a teacher wouldn't generally entertain students who did not hold up their end of the bargain. There might have been tests to even become a student if you were not known to the teacher. When you became a student, the teacher would reward those who did the work and are putting in the time with more knowledge. They wouldn't waste their time on anyone who did not have the willpower and desire on their own end.

It was always entertaining to me to hear of stories of Zhang Zhunfeng and Hong Yixiang. Hong Yixiang was very open about his Tang Shou Tao system (he gave it away), but he was downright close fisted with his Xingyi. And he was nearly secretive with his Bagua, only showing real information to some of his eldest students. It was funny to hear that for the advanced stuff, he would even deliberately lie and mislead newer students, only later to give out the real information to the much more advanced students - and that meant not just years, but decades!

I know that since my teacher grew up in the arts in that culture he still has a lot of that in him as well. That is only natural. His teaching manner in his real classes reflects it (at least when I was there).

As a teacher, this is now something that I struggle with. I look to my teachers and lineage for advice on how to teach, but I am facing a very different culture and group of potential students. The difficulty lies in the fact that I can see how my teacher was successful with his teaching methods. Now granted, they weren’t for everybody – and I saw quite a few promising students who basically dropped out because class wasn’t what they expected. But for those with the drive and will to practice and improve, Luo laoshi didn’t disappoint in the slightest. And looking around, he’s probably one of, if not THE, most successful internal martial arts teachers out there. He’s produced quite a few excellent practitioners. And therein lies the problem I constantly grapple with myself. I know what worked for my teacher and for me, how far can I stretch that to meet the wants of my students and potential students? (Notice that I put “wants” in that sentence and not “needs.”)

…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good point about this not being the old days.</p>
<p>In the old days, a teacher wouldn&#8217;t generally entertain students who did not hold up their end of the bargain. There might have been tests to even become a student if you were not known to the teacher. When you became a student, the teacher would reward those who did the work and are putting in the time with more knowledge. They wouldn&#8217;t waste their time on anyone who did not have the willpower and desire on their own end.</p>
<p>It was always entertaining to me to hear of stories of Zhang Zhunfeng and Hong Yixiang. Hong Yixiang was very open about his Tang Shou Tao system (he gave it away), but he was downright close fisted with his Xingyi. And he was nearly secretive with his Bagua, only showing real information to some of his eldest students. It was funny to hear that for the advanced stuff, he would even deliberately lie and mislead newer students, only later to give out the real information to the much more advanced students - and that meant not just years, but decades!</p>
<p>I know that since my teacher grew up in the arts in that culture he still has a lot of that in him as well. That is only natural. His teaching manner in his real classes reflects it (at least when I was there).</p>
<p>As a teacher, this is now something that I struggle with. I look to my teachers and lineage for advice on how to teach, but I am facing a very different culture and group of potential students. The difficulty lies in the fact that I can see how my teacher was successful with his teaching methods. Now granted, they weren’t for everybody – and I saw quite a few promising students who basically dropped out because class wasn’t what they expected. But for those with the drive and will to practice and improve, Luo laoshi didn’t disappoint in the slightest. And looking around, he’s probably one of, if not THE, most successful internal martial arts teachers out there. He’s produced quite a few excellent practitioners. And therein lies the problem I constantly grapple with myself. I know what worked for my teacher and for me, how far can I stretch that to meet the wants of my students and potential students? (Notice that I put “wants” in that sentence and not “needs.”)</p>
<p>…</p>
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		<title>By: jleeger</title>
		<link>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-71</link>
		<author>jleeger</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.zongwumen.com/2007/12/03/ideas-on-how-to-succeed-in-ima-part-1/#comment-71</guid>
		<description>George,

I think you've hit on the fundamental issue that any teacher has to deal with when working with students...commitment.  It's an issue I've dealt with a lot, in myself and in my work.

I can remember the exasperation of some of my college and high school professors with some students (meybe even me at times...hahaha) who just weren't doing the work.  The teachers knew that the student was capable of the work, but the student just wasn't interested.

Back then, it wasn't so much that you had other demands on your time, at least not serious ones.  Sure, you might rather go play with your friends or read a comic book than study your math homework, but you'd still get to eat that night and have a roof over your head either way.  Your existence wasn't dependent on other demands.

In school, it was really just a question of motivation.  "What am I going to get out of this..." is the question every exasperated student has ever asked.  And it's a fair question.  The problem is, oftentimes, a teacher can't explain in concrete terms that the student can understand, exactly what they'll get out of it.

For personal training, it's relatively easy.  I can point to someone who has the physical attributes that my client wants and say "There.  That's what you'll get."

But even that might not spur the person into action.  They really have to feel the value deep within themselves.  As a trainer, it's my job to find that place for each person I train, so that I can keep that spark alive in them, and keep them focused on achieving their goals.  If I can do more, and turn that spark into a flame, so that it lasts when I'm not around, I've done my job.

Sadly, time passes no matter what we do, and we can't go back.  Sometimes it's helpful to think about all the things you wish you had done, so you don't take the present for granted.  If you can see the other things that you made excuses NOT to do, you might be able to break that pattern in the present.

It takes a lot of introspection to be able to say "Yes, I need to dedicate myself to this thing, no matter what!" and set aside the time to do it, before time gets gobbled up by everything else.  It takes introspection and a steel will in today's world...when there's "so much else" to do.  Either that, or just be completely ruthless about it.

Right now, I think these are the keys as a student:
Examine your motives - What is it going to give you?
How badly do you want that thing - if it's not very badly, then you probably shouldn't waste your time on it.
What goals have you let slip by in the past that you regret?  Will you regret this one, if it slips by as well?
Set aside the time in your day to do it, and be firm about it - with yourself and others.

And I think there is one key as a teacher:
Get to know your individual student(s), and learn their answers to the questions above...then help them to achieve their goal!  If their goal is unclear, and you can help to clarify it for them, that's great.  If not, maybe your efforts are better spent elsewhere...

As a teacher, one can have similar regrets, of having "wasted" time with a student who ends up dropping out.  That time could have been better spent with a truly dedicated student, even if that student may not have held the promise of the eventual drop-out.

It's important to be honest and open about this process.  For better or worse, the world has moved on from the old days.  People have a lot of distractions (real or otherwise...which is another topic entirely!), and are pulled in many directions.  Teachers have to be open to this, and keep this communication path alive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George,</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ve hit on the fundamental issue that any teacher has to deal with when working with students&#8230;commitment.  It&#8217;s an issue I&#8217;ve dealt with a lot, in myself and in my work.</p>
<p>I can remember the exasperation of some of my college and high school professors with some students (meybe even me at times&#8230;hahaha) who just weren&#8217;t doing the work.  The teachers knew that the student was capable of the work, but the student just wasn&#8217;t interested.</p>
<p>Back then, it wasn&#8217;t so much that you had other demands on your time, at least not serious ones.  Sure, you might rather go play with your friends or read a comic book than study your math homework, but you&#8217;d still get to eat that night and have a roof over your head either way.  Your existence wasn&#8217;t dependent on other demands.</p>
<p>In school, it was really just a question of motivation.  &#8220;What am I going to get out of this&#8230;&#8221; is the question every exasperated student has ever asked.  And it&#8217;s a fair question.  The problem is, oftentimes, a teacher can&#8217;t explain in concrete terms that the student can understand, exactly what they&#8217;ll get out of it.</p>
<p>For personal training, it&#8217;s relatively easy.  I can point to someone who has the physical attributes that my client wants and say &#8220;There.  That&#8217;s what you&#8217;ll get.&#8221;</p>
<p>But even that might not spur the person into action.  They really have to feel the value deep within themselves.  As a trainer, it&#8217;s my job to find that place for each person I train, so that I can keep that spark alive in them, and keep them focused on achieving their goals.  If I can do more, and turn that spark into a flame, so that it lasts when I&#8217;m not around, I&#8217;ve done my job.</p>
<p>Sadly, time passes no matter what we do, and we can&#8217;t go back.  Sometimes it&#8217;s helpful to think about all the things you wish you had done, so you don&#8217;t take the present for granted.  If you can see the other things that you made excuses NOT to do, you might be able to break that pattern in the present.</p>
<p>It takes a lot of introspection to be able to say &#8220;Yes, I need to dedicate myself to this thing, no matter what!&#8221; and set aside the time to do it, before time gets gobbled up by everything else.  It takes introspection and a steel will in today&#8217;s world&#8230;when there&#8217;s &#8220;so much else&#8221; to do.  Either that, or just be completely ruthless about it.</p>
<p>Right now, I think these are the keys as a student:<br />
Examine your motives - What is it going to give you?<br />
How badly do you want that thing - if it&#8217;s not very badly, then you probably shouldn&#8217;t waste your time on it.<br />
What goals have you let slip by in the past that you regret?  Will you regret this one, if it slips by as well?<br />
Set aside the time in your day to do it, and be firm about it - with yourself and others.</p>
<p>And I think there is one key as a teacher:<br />
Get to know your individual student(s), and learn their answers to the questions above&#8230;then help them to achieve their goal!  If their goal is unclear, and you can help to clarify it for them, that&#8217;s great.  If not, maybe your efforts are better spent elsewhere&#8230;</p>
<p>As a teacher, one can have similar regrets, of having &#8220;wasted&#8221; time with a student who ends up dropping out.  That time could have been better spent with a truly dedicated student, even if that student may not have held the promise of the eventual drop-out.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to be honest and open about this process.  For better or worse, the world has moved on from the old days.  People have a lot of distractions (real or otherwise&#8230;which is another topic entirely!), and are pulled in many directions.  Teachers have to be open to this, and keep this communication path alive.</p>
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